Tag Archives: Paint Cleveland Redd

Paint Cleveland Redd ’08: Bucks fans react to trade campaign

Paint it Redd campaign signThe campaign by Cleveland fans to make Michael Redd a Cavalier has, in only its second week, ground its way into the NBA trade mills and hit the rumor boards on ESPN.com and Sports Illustrated’s FanNation. The NBA is on notice: the Bucks are looking to trade.

But what do Bucks fans think of trading leading scorer and one-time All-Star Redd to the Cavaliers?

To be brutally blunt, some of the reaction has been brutal and blunt. In fact, terrible things have been said about Lebron’s supporting cast in Cleveland. I can only imagine what Bucks fans think of players on teams that didn’t play in the 2007 NBA Finals or push the Celtics to seven games in this year’s Eastern Conference semifinals.

Other fans have been supportive, even reasonable, while others are naturally skeptical. If there is any concensus it’s that the Bucks might be able to find a team that can offer more player value in a trade for Redd than Cleveland(say, Dallas and small forward Josh Howard). Generally, Bucks fans are more receptive if the Cavs 25-year-old big man, Anderson Varejao, is part of the deal.

A recurring theme is that Bucks fans are surprisingly difficult traders, given a roster that’s won 54 games in two seasons.

“Cavs fans, we aren’t good trading partners,” signs fan ReddBogutCharlieV to his posts at realgm.com. “Stop trying to make us such.”

Let’s review the anatomy of this Redd-to-Cleveland beast:

The trade centers on two players contracts: Michael Redd’s (3 years/$51 million/$15.8M next year) and veteran G-F Wally Szczerbiak‘s (one-year/$13.2M). Cleveland has other “expiring” contracts that when pieced together work with Redd’s, but let’s be realistic: There is almost no chance the Cavs would pay Redd and Szczerbiak a combined $29 million to suit up next year. Wally would come to the Bucks and his contract would expire at the end of next season, creating some salary cap relief, which the Bucks don’t have a dime of now.

What else do the Cavs have to offer the Bucks? Assuming Bucks GM John Hammond will want players who could at minimum join the Bucks rotation next season, two young players who played key roles in the Cavs run to the 2007 Finals stand out: Varejao and 21-year-old guard Daniel “Boobie” Gibson.

Gibson is a free agent, which would require a sign and trade deal. The Cavs are loathe to trade their sharpshooter, who made his mark during the run to the Finals. Gibson scored 31 points to eliminate Detroit in Game 6 of the conference finals last year. 

Varejao, a relentless 6’10” rebounder and tough defender, will be paid $6 million next year and has a player option for 2009-10, which means he could leave the Bucks in free agency unless Hammond makes the type of commitment Cleveland GM Danny Ferry refused to make. Things got ugly last year during Varejao’s contract negotiations, and Varejao is rumored to be on the trading block.

Varejao’s salary matches Dan Gadzuric’s 3-year/$20M, which the Bucks would love to trade anywhere they could.

Complicated?

Cleveland has the #19 pick in the draft, and that’s simple enough.


Let’s go first to our old friend, Bucks fan Al in Ohio:

“Unless the Bucks decide they really, really want Szczerbiak’s expiring contract (which to me means they decide to kind of write off next year, and look toward 2009-2010), I just don’t see where a Szczerbiak/Gibson/maybe Pavlovic? package makes the Bucks noticeably better. Let’s not forget: Gibson is not much of a PG. He’s a great shooter (although he’s even smaller than Mo) but in terms of PG skills, there’s nothing about him that really stands out.”


Daniel Gibson Detroit Game 6BobBoozerJinx:  Hold up, Al. Gibson’s not a point guard, he’s a shooting guard; and at 6’2″ Boobie’s taller than Mo (who really is kinda short). We’re not off to a very good start here.

RealGM Bucks forum moderator PaulPressey25:

“I have no problem sending Redd to Cleveland if he takes Gadz contract with him and we bring back [Varejao], #19, and Gibson, plus their salary deadweight.”


Bucks fan Europa on the realGM forum:

“It’s my hope that if Hammond can’t find a better deal for Redd than anything the Cavs can offer on their own that he just keeps him. I really don’t like the idea of giving Redd away.”


GlennInTampa on the JSOnline Bucks Blog:

“Gibson and Szczerbiak for Michael Redd? Loserville! Add Varejao and maybe. Maybe.”


jpaul34 on the Sportsbubbler fan forum:

“I don’t think Gibson, Szczerbiak and the 19th is anywhere near enough for Redd. I’d like to see how this group (the Bucks, with a couple of changes) reacts to playing for a new coach with a strong voice. I think the talent is there, but they definitely need direction.”


Jpaul blogs at The Scores Report, where he predicts that the Bucks will “give Redd, Mo, Yi and Bogut a half of a season to gel before making any major moves.”

Frank at Brewhoop:

“If the Bucks pull a salary dump of Redd then I’d have to get more than Wally World and Boobie Gibson — at the very least I’d want to add Varejao and Gadzuric into the mix plus some picks. Even then I’m not sure how compelling it is. Agent Dan Fegan would love having his clients Yi and Varejao battle for minutes, wouldn’t he?”




DAWG 13 On the JSOnline Bucks forum: 

“It’s amazing how many of you guys want to trade Redd. I’ve got nothing against it but lets face it, he’s by far and away our best player. If we trade him we need to get value, not role players as some have suggested. If properly coached Redd can be an allstar again. I’ll bet the people wanting to trade Redd also supported the Ray Allen trade, look how that worked out.”


BBJ:  Nope. The Ray Allen trade was a maniacal ploy by George Karl that, to this day, no one understands.

ReddBogutCharlieV on RealGM:

“Something revolved around Varejao and Gibson plus a pick. Or else we’ll have to get a third team involved.”


Isocleas2 on RealGM

“Bucks trade: Redd, Gadzuric – Cavs trade: Varejao, Wally, #19.  This trade is starting to grow on me. We shed salary, pick up a couple of good players in Varejao and the pick, and Wally’s expiring contract could possibly be used in a deadline trade.”


The Brewtown Beat sportsblog:

“First, I don’t want Boobie Gibson. The Bucks already have Mo Williams, and seem poised to add Eric Gordon with their 8th pick. That’s three undersized shooting guards if you’re counting at home. Sorry, but no thanks. I don’t want Wally Szczerbiak, but I realize we’ll need to bring back a large contract in return. That being said though, Cleveland is going to have to take some of our bad contracts, just as they expect us to do in return.”


BBJ:  That’s not very nice. That Bobby Simmons contract is really bad.

Smooth32, a Cavs fan, weighs in on RealGM:

“Don’t get too high on Boobie guys … The kid isn’t expected to go anywhere this summer. …Varejao is definitely available, as well as the expirings…  Everyone else is pretty much fair game but I think they would like to keep West, Smith and the #19 pick.”


BBJ:  If the Cavs get to keep Boobie, the Bucks get the # 19 pick. You can’t have it both ways Smooth.

Raferfenix on RealGM:

“Varejao will have a lot of value to a team that wants to commit to him long term — I’m not convinced that’s the Bucks as he’ll probably end up being overpaid, and especially considering he’d be a backup here. I don’t think Hammond would do that.”


love hoops on the Sportsbubbler fan forum

“I would hope Mr. Hammond wouldn’t even consider this trade with the Cavs. The only player they got is Lebron. Maybe trading CV to the Cavs, but not Redd; we can get more for him. … If we could get quality for quality, then maybe take a look at trade.”


Johnny Newman on Realgm:

“I say fold this topic up. We got enough bait to land us AK47 and Jermaine O’Neal. While keeping Bogut, Yi, Bell, Session. Good enough core and line up.”


BBJ:  Sorry Johnny, too early in the hand to fold. Did you say Andrei Kirilenko and Jermaine O’Neil?



NotYoAvgNBAFan on RealGM:

“Hogwash! What are you doing!? Redd is your major chip, you don’t trade him to a divisional rival for cow manure of a motley crew such as that!”


BBJ:  Reactions like this are the reason too many expiring contracts do not make for friendly trading. Cleveland’s got some manure, including former Bucks Damon Jones (2003-04) and Joe Smith (who asked to be traded out of Milwaukee in 2007), and Eric Snow (set to retire). “Dung!” barked nuttinbutta Big Dog balla party.

MontanaMan on JSOnline Bucks blog:

“I still would rather see Redd get traded to a team other than the Cavs. It’s too good for the Cavs and for Redd, but may not good enough for the Bucks (as compared to what it can do for the Cavs). … If they included Varejao, Gibson, and a draft pick, and take Gadzuric and his contract away, then I would say it’s very good for the Bucks.


Coolhandluke121 on RealGM:

“West, Varejao, Pavlovic, #19, and some expiring deals have solid value. But for the me the Cavs would have to sweeten the deal by also taking Gadz’s terrible contract and throwing in their 2011 draft pick, which could be top-5 if Lebron leaves. Which he may want to do if the Cavs are paying Redd and Gadz a combined $26 mill starting in 2011. I would give up Redd for a deal like that for the simple reason that Redd is not all that hard to replace. To me, it’s not about whether it’s equal value.”


BBJ:  What it does seem to be about is whether Bucks fans want to trade Redd or not. There are Bucks fans who have not/will not renew their ticket packages if Michael Redd is on the team. Others would trade him for a case of beer and a Bob Boozer Jinx subscription. Still others think he deserves a sixth shot at winning in Milwaukee as a starter.

Bucks fans didn’t just begin talking about trading Redd to Cleveland with the start of the Paint Cleveland Redd ’08 campaign. It came up before the trading deadline this year. During the Cavs 1st round playoff series with the Wizards, I proposed a trade here with that phone call to Lebron (he still hasn’t changed his cell phone number, believe it or not).

About ten days later it came up on RealGM. The Cavs had dropped Game 1 of the East semifinals to Boston. The question on the forum: What could the Cavs offer the Bucks in trades for Mo Williams or Redd?

Paulpressey25:

“Mo for Varejao and Gibson. Redd for Varajao/Gibson/Cav’s 2008 #1/Wally as filler.”


DrugBust:

“Redd for Wally and #19, and a 2010 pick works for me.”


Sigra:

“Varejao, Pavlovic, Smith and their pick for Redd works for me.”


Luke 23:

“I say this in all seriousness that the only player on the Cavs I would actually covet on the Bucks is LeBron. The rest of their roster is just yuck. I can’t even think of a deal for either off the top of my head, considering the Cavs pick 19th, would want a higher pick than that.”


Dow Jones:

“I guess the issue is whether or not you want to get rid of Mo and/or Redd. If you don’t, then there is nothing that the Cavs could do. If you do, I think Cleveland is one of the few teams that would want to make a deal.

“I don’t really see how the Bucks could get much value for Redd or Mo. I know [there is] talk about a [Josh] Howard for Redd swap, but that type of deal doesn’t make sense for Dallas.  What other deals are out there for Redd and Mo that Milwaukee fans would consider?”


Paint Cleveland Redd 08: Cavaliers fans kick off Michael Redd trade campaign

Paint Cleveland Redd '08 artworkIt wasn’t the shot heard ’round the world, but that “Redd to Cleveland” business that began so humbly here at the Bob Boozer Jinx in late April has taken on a life of its own in Cleveland.

The Redd to Cleveland in Cleveland campaign was kicked off earlier this week by “Cavaliers Corner” blogger Dan Labbe and is now a gathering storm, complete with slogans, artwork and calls for mobilization, petitions and letter-writing efforts. An “all-out campaign” is promised under the banner Paint Cleveland Redd ’08.

The heart of the deal proposed by the Paint Cleveland Redd campaign is the same as proposed here April 28 – Bucks get 21-year-old shooting guard Daniel “Boobie” Gibson and small forward/shooting guard Wally Szczerbiak, whose name I’m finally spelling correctly, I hope.  With the good input from some Bucks fans on the realgm.com forum, we added the Cavs #19 pick in the draft. That’s just fine with Labbe and the Cavaliers Corner faithful, whose exploits are hosted on the Cleveland Plain Dealer website Cleveland.com. In fact, Paint Cleveland Redd’s got the daily behind it — and a hype block on the Plain Dealer’s sports home page.

Let’s Review:

1) Wally Szczerbiak, age 31, has one year left on a six-year, $66 million contract that will pay him $13.5M next season. Michael Redd has three years, $51M remaining on his contract and will make $15.8M next year. Wally’s contract is essential. Cleveland won’t deal unless the Bucks take it, and, well, Wally’s contract makes the deal viable under league rules.

 2) Boobie Gibson is a free agent this summer, and that complicates things somewhat. A sign and trade agreement would have to be made. Gibson made $687,000 this year, so the deal still works under league rules if the Cavs don’t go nuts and give Gibson a $6 million raise. He’s more likely to get a $3-4M bump — Danny Ferry is the Cavs GM, not Larry Harris.

3) The Bucks would then be sending out $15.8 million and taking in $17-18 million or so, which makes this deal doable. Wally’s contract clears out after next season, when Redd’s contract will be up to $17M. Even if Gibson’s contract pays him $7M in 2009-10, the Bucks will have cleared $10M in salary cap room. The Bucks are going to need that sort of cap flexibility if they are going to improve over the next 2-3 years.


So we know the numbers work, and that’s why fans in both Milwaukee and Cleveland have been talking about this deal. If you don’t think Cleveland fans are excited about Redd and ready to mobilize, they’ve even got a campaign song that is perfectly appropriate when ordering that fourth pitcher of beer. We go now to Cleveland where we join the Paint Cleveland Redd anthem (The Redd Spangledd Banner) already in progress ….

“. . . and the shooter’s REDD glare,

Treys bursting in air,

Gave proof through the game

That a legitimate #2 scoring option was there …

Oh say, ddoes Ferry have

What it takes to get the tradde ddone . . .

‘Cause it will suck to not get a real SG – eee

‘But with REDD we’ll have fun!”

(Thank you, thank you — don’t forget to tip your waitress!)

— “The Redd Spangledd banner,” complete with double-dees, comes courtesy of Cavs fan “The Cavalier”.


Let’s review some more:

Bucks fans generally want a lot in return for Redd, but Michael — who really should have been able to pick up a nickname in this town by now — is a guy with one of those difficult-to-move contracts. I can’t see a developing team going for it, which leaves the contenders and playoff teams looking to get that “one more piece” at shooting guard that could put them over the top. The list of teams is short: Dallas, possibly Utah and Phoenix, New Orleans, Orlando and … Denver if George Karl declares Allen Iverson the point guard. That’s it. Cleveland is the most obvious trading partner, having bid on Redd three years ago in free agency.

Philly can’t make the trade because it can’t match the salaries. Toronto? Do we really want to see TJ Ford back? Denver, now that I think about it, has J.R. Smith up-and-coming at shooting guard. Would Phoenix give up Boris Diaw and Raja Bell/Leandro Barbosa for Redd? Would Orlando trade Lewis or Turkoglu or Nelson? Dallas could use a scoring option like Redd at 2-guard, and a trade looks good if the Bucks can get Mark Cuban to give up Josh Howard. Many teams just don’t have a hole at shooting guard.

I realize I’m picking arguments to make my point, but Cleveland, still woozy from the Game 7 loss to Boston Sunday, wants desperately a 2nd scoring option for Lebron and now its fans are on the campaign trail to bring home one of Ohio’s own (Redd’s from Columbus, played at Ohio State). This is a trade the Bucks could make as a courtesy to Redd.


Wally and Boobie are no slouches: 

Both players are great shooters who can play the 2 and would fit in nicely on the Bucks, a team tuned to develop its big men. They’ll replace a player who hasn’t fit in too well with the Bucks development plans for players not himself. Call it addition by subtraction, whatever you will, but the ball has got to move. Szczerbiak is a solid veteran who makes his teammates better with smart, team play. He’s like a coach on the floor, with a Toni Kukoc-type presence sorely lacking on the Bucks ever since, well ever since Toni Kukoc retired.

Boobie Gibson has had a tough year with injuries and is currently recovering from the Celtics series, in which his arm was separated from its shoulder. Gibson was the go-to guard during the 2007 Eastern Conference finals, rescuing Cleveland from the terribly mediocre play of its other guards against the Pistons. Gibson rang up 31 against Detroit in Game 6, helping send the Cavs to the NBA Finals — quite an achievement for a rookie. Needless to say, Cleveland fans love Boobie, and don’t want to see him go. This season, he missed 18 games with an ankle injury and returned to find newly-acquired Delonte West in his starting point guard spot. Gibson then split time with newly-acquired Wally at shooting guard (often playing in the 4th quarter) and backed up West at point. Gibson’s a smart, quick player who shoots 40+ % from behind the arc and has many years in the NBA ahead of him.

At this point I’d like to point out that all three of the principles in this trade are better shooters than the top six guards in this year’s draft, the possible exception being O.J. Mayo. Redd, Wally and Boobie are all proven NBA three-ballers with 40+ % seasons under their belts.

The Cavs would throw in their #19 pick in this year’s draft, which should make Bucks fans more comfortable with the trade (y’all haven’t been too hip to the idea of trading Redd for just Wally and Boobie) — and the #19 pick gives GM John Hammond one more tool to pursue the small forward he’s looking for this offseason.


The best thing about Paint Cleveland Redd ’08 is that I’m not making any of this up!  Not even the anthem!

A lot of good things happen for both teams in this trade; it’s time now to forge ahead by supporting the efforts of our NBA brethren (and sistas) in Cleveland. I’m sure they’d love to hear us grouse about all this over at Cleveland.com. Knowing the snap pace at which GM Hammond operates, he’s probably contacted the Cavs already. Twice. The least we could do, as Bucks fans, is let our GM know that we’re behind him.

Today could be a great day for NBA fan unity. Si se puede, baby!!!  Let’s make a deal.