Tag Archives: Orlando Magic

Farewell John Hammond: The abstract expressionist maze of deals that demolished the original “Fear the Deer” Bucks

"Convergence" by Jackson Pollock, 1952.

Bucks GM John Hammond is gone to the Orlando to work for the ultra-conservative DeVos family, owners of the Orlando Magic, and quite busy in these political times they helped finance.

Hammond replaces Rob Hennigan, the GM fired by the Magic in April after missing the playoffs for the fifth straight year, this time beaten by his own big trade last summer for Serge Ibaka.

The editorial board at BobBoozerJinx.com (and I) wish Hammond well, and I’m sure he knows what he’s doing, just as I’m sure Hennigan had no clue what he was doing (any GM who trades two legit NBA starters and 6’11” lottery pick named Sabonis for Ibaka is buying a “fire me now” tattoo).

I also can’t shake the puzzling fact that Hammond was still in Milwaukee four years after his own five-year plan to build a winner lay in shambles, circa 2013. Bucks owners Marc Lasry and Wes Edens bought the team in 2014 and installed Jason Kidd as coach and de facto player personnel chief right under Hammond’s nose, without bothering to consult him. That he’s only just leaving now, three years later, is a wonder.

Jeff Weltman, Hammond’s draft guru, who left the Bucks in 2013 to work for the Raptors, will join him in Orlando. Scott Skiles, the former Bucks coach who walked out on his coaching contract with the Magic last summer over player personnel disagreements with Hennigan, will certainly not be joining them. Skiles quit after one season in Orlando because Hennigan, apparently, had no respect for Skiles’ ideas about building a Scott Skiles team.

Skiles quit on Hammond, too, for similar reasons. It happened during their fifth season together in Milwaukee, 2012-13, the final year of both the coach’s and the GM’s contracts, and also the year Weltman left. Skiles didn’t like the roster he was dealt post-Andrew Bogut trade (the roster itself didn’t like the Bucks roster) and when Skiles declined to negotiate a contract extension, Hammond let him go.

Their five-year plan in Milwaukee had produced immediate results and a 49-40 record, playoffs included, in its second year, thanks to some deft Hammond roster moves, which won him the NBA’s Executive of the Year award in 2010. The fans in Milwaukee were ecstatic, and the “Fear the Deer” slogan was born. But it fell apart just as quickly when the next Hammond trades undermined the Bucks chemistry (trade for Corey Maggette, 2010, and others; the 3-team draft day trade to be rid of Maggette in 2011 looks now like an unwarranted act of desperation). Injuries robbed the team of any consistency and gave Hammond some handy excuses.

The 2012 trade of Bogut to the Warriors in time anchored a championship defense in Golden State; it immediately destroyed the Bucks identity. By summer of 2012, Skiles had listed his home in the north Milwaukee suburbs “for sale” on the real estate market. By January of 2013, he was gone. Weltman exited for Toronto later in the year, though obviously on much better terms.

There’s an irony here amid the ruined five year plans in Milwaukee and Orlando, or maybe there is only Giannis Antetokounmpo, the diamond in the rough, the superstar rising whom Hammond and Weltman stumbled upon in their 6th summer with the Bucks. Maybe it’s the truth of Scott Skiles and his refusals to coach the Frankenstein rosters his former GMs patched together. The Bucks ability to benefit exponentially from Brandon Jennings via the trade with the Pistons and beyond is another (see the greenest area below). Or perhaps it’s elsewhere, the way one might find whatever it is they’re looking for in an abstract expressionist painting.

If you let your eyes blur a little over the minutia, a full account of Hammond’s wheeling and dealing of the Bucks “Fear the Deer” roster and draft picks does resemble a work of Jackson Pollock splatter art, or at least the same sense of aimless searching one can find in the meander of Pollock’s paints. 

Hammond reduced the entire 2010 Bucks squad and five years of draft pick assets to only a handful of players under contract: Khris Middleton, Malcolm Brogdon, John Henson. Add to that other 2010-connected assets such as the right of first refusal on Tony Snell in this summer’s free agency, Spencer Hawes‘ $6 million player option; and a super protected future 2nd round draft pick, and you have less than a third of a team, with two parts in flux.

Some of it was the work of Jason Kidd, but most of the work was done by Hammond prior to Kidd being hired. And here it is, in every exacting detail (I’m pretty sure I got it all, but someone please let me know if I missed anything).

How Hammond dealt Bucks assets Aug. 2009 – June 2013
(Green and CAPS indicates deal for current player (s) or asset; Red indicates end of the Bucks 2010-12 ties to that player, where the branch ends. “Assets” includes all draft picks 2008-2012.)
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2008 No. 8 draft pickJoe Alexander – traded 2/08/2010 w/ Hakim Warrick and a 2010 1st Round draft pick swap to Chicago Bulls for John Salmons, a 2011 2nd Rd pick (Isaiah Thomas) and a 2012 2nd Rd pick (Doron Lamb).
John Salmons – traded 6/32/11 w/ 2011 No. 10 pick (Jimmer Fredette) to Sacramento Kings for Beno Udrih as part of 3-team Corey MaggetteStephen Jackson, Shaun Livingston pick swap deal w/ Charlotte Bobcats
Beno Udrih – traded to Orlando Magic for J.J. Redick
J.J. Reddick – traded to L.A. Clippers for two 2nd Rd. draft picks (2014 – No. 48 Lamar Patterson; 2015 – No. 41 Pat Connaughton)
Patterson traded to Hawks for 2015 pick Norman Powelldead-ends with Greivis Vasquezleft unsigned by Bucks as 2016 free agent;
Connaughton was the pick sent to Brooklyn as compensation for the Bucks hiring coach JASON KIDD (see also Tobias Harris trade 2013)  
2008 No. 37 pick – Luc Mbah a Moute – Traded for to Sacramento Kings for future 2nd Rd picks
2014 2nd Rd Pick – Johnny O’Bryantwaived 2016
2016 2nd Rd pick – MALCOLM BROGDON – (Bucks traded their own 2016 pick Patrick McCaw to GSW for $2.4 CASH)
2009 No. 10 pick – Brandon Jennings traded 2013 for KHRIS MIDDLETON  Brandon Knight and Viacheslav Kravtsov
KHRIS MIDDLETON – current Buck
Brandon Knight – Traded w/ Kendall Marshall (claimed on waivers 2014) to Phoenix Suns for Miles Plumlee and Tyler Ennis in 3-team trade w/ PHI.
Sixers trade Michael Carter-Williams to Bucks
Miles Plumlee – traded to Charlotte Hornets for Spencer Hawes and Roy Hibbert
Roy Hibbert – traded to Denver for cash, SUPER PROTECTED 2019 2ND RD PICK (top 55 protected)
SPENCER HAWEScurrent Buck, had player option 2017-18. Bucks
Michael Carter-Williams – traded to Chicago 2016 for TONY SNELL
Tyler Ennis – traded 2016 to Houston for Michael Beasley, unrestricted free agent 2017 (Beasley signed with the Knicks
Viacheslav Kravtsov – traded Aug. 2013 w/ Ish Smith to Phoenix for Caron Butler
Caron Butlerwaived Feb. 2014, signed with OKC
2009 No. 41 draft pick – Jodie Meeks, traded for free agent veterans and 2010 2nd Rd Pick (Darington Hobson)
2010 No. 17 draft pick – swapped for Chicago’s No. 15 as part of Alexander-Warrick for Salmons trade, used to take center Larry Sanders.
Larry Sanders bought out March 2015 – ANNUAL $1.866 MILLION SALARY CAP HIT THRU 2022
2010 2nd rd pickDarington Hobson, injured, never plays, waived 2012
2010 2nd rd pick – Tiny Gallon, waived 2010
2010 2nd rd pickJerome Jordan, obtained in trade for Maggette, sold to Knicks for CASH
2011 No. 10 pick – traded in 3-team Corey Maggette trade draft day June 2011 with SAC and CHA for 2011 No. 18 pick (Tobias Harris)
J.J. Redick traded 2013 to LAC for future 2nd Rd Pick (2015 No. 41) and 2014 2nd Rd Pick (No. 48 Lamar Patterson)
Lamar Patterson – traded to Atlanta Hawks for 2015 2nd Rd. pick
2015 2nd Rd pick – (Norman Powell) traded to Toronto for Greivis Vasquez
Greivis Vasquez – left unsigned by Bucks as 2016 free agent
2015 No. 41 pick (Pat Connaughton) sent to Brooklyn Nets as compensation for Bucks coach JASON KIDD
Ish Smith – traded for Caron Butler, Aug. 2013
Caron Butler – waived, Feb. 2014, signs with OKC for playoffs.
Gustavo Ayonleft unsigned by Bucks as 2013 free agent
2011 No. 40 pickJon Leuer – traded w/ J. Brockman, Shaun Livingston for Dalembert, 2014 2nd round pick
Dalembert leaves in free agency 2013
2014 2nd Rd. pick – traded to Philly for Nate Walters
Walters waived to make room for the Bucks to sign Kenyon Martin
Kenyon Martinwaived Feb. 2015
2011 No. 60 pick – the Isaiah pick, traded to SAC for Jon Brockman
Jon Brockman – traded to HOU in Dalembert deal, 2012
Dalembert – leaves in free agency, 2013
2012 No. 12 pick – (Jeremy Lamb) swapped for Houston’s No. 14 Pick (JOHN HENSON) in trade for Sam Dalembert
2012 No. 42 pick (from Chicago) – Doron Lamb – traded 2013 to ORL w/ Tobias Harris for J.J. Redick, Ish Smith, Gustavo Ayon
Amir Johnson – traded Aug. 2009 w/ Sonny Weems to Toronto Raptors for Carlos Delfino and Roko Ukic
Carlos Delfinoleft unsigned in free agency Aug. 2012, signed w/ Houston
Roko Ukicwaived Jan. 2010
Sonny Weems – traded Aug. 2009 w/ Amir Johnson to Raptors for Delfino and Ukic
Hakim Warrick – Signed as FA July 2009, traded to CHI (w/ Joe Alexander) Feb. 2010 for John Salmons
Salmons traded to Sacramento as part of 3-team trade June 2011, thread finally ends with Greivis Vasquez, 2016
Charlie Bell expiring contract – traded June 2010 to the Warriors for Corey Maggette and a 2010 2nd Rd draft pick (Jerome Jordan)
2010 2nd Rd Pick – (Jerome Jordan) sold to Knicks for CASH
Dan Gadzuric expiring contract – traded June 2010 to the Warriors for Corey Maggette
Corey Maggette – traded to Charlotte Bobcats June 2011 for Stephen Jackson and Shaun Livingston, as part of 3-team trade (also included a swap of draft picks and John Salmons to Sacramento for Beno Udrih).
Shaun Livingston – traded with Jon Leuer, Jon Brockman to Houston for Dalembert
Stephen Jackson – traded 2012 to the Warriors w/ Andrew Bogut
 
Darnell Jackson – claimed on waivers 2010, traded July 2010 with 2011 2nd Rd pick for Jon Brockman
Brockman – traded to HOU w/ Leuer, Livingston and 1st Rd. draft pick (Jeremy Lamb) in pick swap-Dalembert deal
Luke Ridnour unsigned in free agency, July 2010, went to Minnesota T-Wolves
Kurt Thomasgone to Chicago Bulls in free agency July 2010
Jerry Stackhouse – signed 01/19/10 for rest of season, signed w/ Heat 10/23/10
Andrew Bogut – traded 2012 season to Golden State Warriors (w/ Stephen Jackson) for Ekpe Udoh, Monta Ellis, Kwame Brown
Kwame Brown – left unsigned free agency 2012
Monta Ellis signed with Dallas Mavs, free agency 2013
Ekpe Udoh – left unsigned free agency 2014
Carlos Delfino – suffered concussion vs. Miami Heat 3/26 2010, left in free agency Aug. 2012, signed with Houston
Michael Redd – injured, played very little for Skiles. If ever there was a trade to be made for Redd, Bucks owner Herb Kohl probably nixed it. Redd was an annual $16-$19 million salary cap liability for Bucks 2008-2011, but also a combination of Lloyd’s of London insurance payments to Bucks and player asset depreciation that could be written off as loss on the team’s books. Contract expired 2011.
Ersan Ilyasova – traded in June 2015 to Detroit Pistons for Shawne Williams and Caron Butler
Butler waived by Bucks a 2nd time, June 2015
Shawne Williams – waived June 2015
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Assets remaining from all transactions, Fear the Deer 2010 roster and draft picks 2008-2012
(Includes all assets resulting from moves of players from the 2010 team and draft picks 2008-12.) Looking back on this post a few months later, woah, some of these moves are so mind-boggling they had to actually happen to be believed, and there are no doubt some who still don’t believe they happened, sort of like seeing the Marvel Deadpool movie for the first time.
JASON KIDD, however partial – compensation 2nd Rd pick sent to Brooklyn, hiring of Kidd done by team owners without Hammond’s knowledge. This token connection to coach Kidd is all that’s left from the No. 8 2008 pick and the No. 10 2011 pick, plus Hakeem Warrick, Charlie Bell and Dan Gadzuric’s 2010 expiring contracts; and Andrew Bogut, who connects to this via Stephen Jackson who connects back to the deals involving 2008 and 2011 draft picks. Madness.
2012 #12 Pick – swapped w/ Houston for #14 – JOHN HENSON
KHRIS MIDDLETON – acquired in trade for Brandon Jennings*
TONY SNELL* (Snell is in Milwaukee due to trades believed to have been instigated by Kidd – beginning with the 3-team Brandon Knight-to-Phoenix trade in 2015; Michael Carter-Williams came to Bucks from Philly in that deal; MCW was traded to Chicago for Snell in 2016). Bucks signed Snell to a 4-year $44 million deal July 1, 2017.
SPENCER HAWES – player option 2017-18* Hawes opted IN, and Bucks waived him August 31, stretching his $6.021 million contract over three years, so they will take an ANNUAL $2.007 MIL SALARY CAP HIT through fy 2019-2020
JABARI PARKER’s KNEES (as a 2014 draft pick, Parker should not be included but perhaps his knees qualifty)
$1.866 MIL ANNUAL CAP HIT through 2022 owing to Larry Sanders buyout
MALCOM BROGDON – 2017 Rookie of the Year
A 2019 protected 2nd rd pick from Nuggets (Roy Hibbert trade) the Bucks will only see if the Nuggets have one of the five-best records in the NBA in 2019.
*Middleton, Snell and Hawes (and the 2019 pick from Nuggets) all connected to Brandon Jennings and Jennings trade thread that starts w/ Hammond’s trade w/ Detroit June 2013. 
Post updated 10/24/2017 by someone who obviously has wayyy too much time on his hands.
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Source-erole and other notes:
Image: “Convergence” by Jackson Pollock, 1952. Prints available at Art.com
Tracking down the final traces of those seemingly infinite 2nd Rd picks: https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/DraftTrades/Future/Bucks.htm
  • Player and team transactions: http://basketball-reference.com
  • Devos family research: Rolling Stone article on worst sports owners, http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/lists/the-15-worst-owners-in-sports-20141125/the-devos-family-orlando-magic-20141124
  • Forbes Magazine, column on Devos social/political networks: https://www.forbes.com/sites/lauriebennett/2011/12/26/the-ultra-rich-ultra-conservative-devos-family/#300911c06479
  • NY Times, 02/07/14, “Betsy Devos confirmed as Education Secretary; Pence breaks tie”: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/us/politics/betsy-devos-education-secretary-confirmed.html
  • Orlando Sentinel, Toronto Star, AP story on Hennigan’s firing, ESPN news, a crazy, half-baked CBS Sports feature 12/14/15 on how Hammond and the Bucks were “responsible for basically building the Warriors” championship team. It’s partially true, as everyone knows because the Andrew Bogut trade was a direct infusion of Bucks top 5 Skiles defense to the Warriors. And the decision to trade Shaun Livingston and others to Houston stands alone as Hammond’s worst trade. Where the article gets fuzzy is the question of whether the Bucks were going to draft Klay Thompson with their No. 10 pick (which they traded in their eagerness to dump Corey Maggette). Having covered the 2011 draft here at BobBoozerjinx, I know the Bucks were excited about a guy named Thompson but his first name was Tristan, not Klay. They only swapped the No. 10 pick when they realized Tristan Thompson was going to go much higher than anyone but Cleveland expected. The killer about the 2011 draft, and I never grow tired of pointing this out, is that Kawhi Leonard and Kenneth Faried were both on the board when the Bucks made the trade, and while I didn’t write much about Faried, well, here’s the post.  “The best answer for the Bucks is hardworking Kawhi Leonard,” who “fits the Bucks core personality, if for no other reason than he has a nose for winning 50-50 plays that Skiles can’t resist.” As for Klay Thompson? Hammond didn’t want to take a shooting guard and wasn’t going to be forced into it by “Bucks needs” or any lottery politics — so he traded out of it and did what he likes to do: take the youngest forward in the draft. Klay Thompson was never the pick that got away — that was Leonard, and if you didn’t catch it before the draft, you knew it the instant that sinking feeling set in when the Spurs traded for him on draft day.
  • Adrian Wojnarowski’s twitter account Jan. 2013 (tweet on how Skiles “hates his team” https://twitter.com/WojVerticalNBA/status/288522111281135616
  • Toronto Star, “Raptors without GM Weltman”, 5/22/17:  https://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2017/05/22/raptors-without-gm-after-weltman-jumps-to-magic.html

Shaq retires … for now, and with him goes the good humor he brought to the humorless, post-Jordan days of the NBA

It’s really true, and as a part-time Celtics fan I can’t help but be disappointed.  Shaquille O’Neal, when healthy (which wasn’t often this season) made the Celtics better, more formidable in the paint.

The Celtics were surprised by Shaq’s Twitter announcement and maybe we should be, too.

More than anything, Shaq changed the C’s demeanor.  No more were they the team of Kendrick Perkins‘ scowl and Kevin Garnett‘s gesticulations.  They were big as a Diesel, no doubt about it, and the Diesel delivered on the court — leading the Celtics in defensive impact (a 2.84 ezPM score) while snatching 4.8 rebs per game and scoring 9.2 points per game in just 20 minutes.

And he may return once the league’s labor dispute is settled, when the race for the 2012 playoffs is on — when we most need an old star to tweak Lebron James’ all-business, all-defense, “all-me”-this-ain’t-funny-even-if-we-win, facade.  Shaq’s got some game in him left, and a little Brett Favre in him, too — evidenced by this Twitter announcement during the NBA Finals, moments that belong to Lebron and Dirk, and that’s not a criticism of Favre or Shaq.  Jordan or Bird or Magic might have done something similar.

Shaq’s NBA in the post-Jordan dark days was not as competitive as the current league, and the Lakers three-pete (2000-2002) was often controversial and marred by questionable refereeing — yet Shaq was the face that managed to win over new converts even as so many fouled on it all.

No, Shaq’s era was not filled with the league’s finer moments, and if there were fine moments, those belonged to Jordan or Hakeem or Duncan and Robinson, even Sam Cassell (with the Rockets, Bucks and T-Wolves).  Through it all, however, the largess of Shaq and his steadily improving post game remained the point of departure for many fans.  Like it, be awed by it, shrug it off as freak of nature performance that made NBA hardwoods less than level, even the casual NBA fan had to consider all that was Shaq as he joked his way through press conferences.

Shaq’s Lakers set the NBA mark for best record in the playoffs (15-1) but, due to one of the most crookedly refereed series’ in NBA history (Sixers-Bucks 2001), they never had to face in the Finals the team they couldn’t beat that season:  The Sam Cassell, Glen “Big Dog” Robinson, Ray Allen “Big Three” Bucks coached by George Karl.

The following season, the 2002 seven-game Western conference Final between the Lakers and the Sacramento Kings was nearly as crooked as the 2001 Bucks-Sixers series, only more of the public was watching.  The smugness of Kobe Bryant and Lakers coach Phil Jackson emerged as sorry emblems for a league that seemed to have lost its way under the influence of its Emperor Palpatine-like commissioner, David Stern.  They let the big fella down.  So the big fella walked away.

(Edit addition:  In his new book, Shaq Uncut: My Story, Shaq divulges some detail behind his longstanding fued with Kobe. Deadspin has some excerpts.)

Shaq’s rebellion won over many of us NBA fans in flyover midlands country, and as he turned his back on them, he nagged Kobe’s self-centered game, defying Jackson and Stern, foiling the L.A. dynasty.  The  championship he won in 2006 with Dwyane Wade and Alonzo Mourning stands as Shaq’s emphatic signature on a Hall of Fame career — four-time champion, MVP, good teammate, joker, prankster, plentiful tipper of bellhops, barmaids, waitresses and food delivery workers all over America

We the people liked him for it in the end, a difficult and unlikely achievement considering the general bad mood of the casual NBA fan.

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For Bucks fans, Shaq and his Lakers will primarily be a “what if” — an opportunity and great NBA Finals series denied in 2001.  But there is another connection (which was the original intent of this post about a thousand words ago) that involves one of Shaq’s favorite teammates and longtime friend, Bucks coach Scott Skiles; and Skiles’ longtime friend, former Orlando Magic teammate and former Bucks head coach Larry Krystkowiak.

Yes, this is the fight documentary, one of the better NBA practice brawl stories you’ll ever hear, involving two scrappy old-school player wanna-bes and their young superstar.  Yes, the best Shaq stories were told before Twitter and Youtube and Facebook …

The year: 1994

The stage: Magic practice floor on the road in Los Angeles.

Our narrator: Larry Krystkowiak, Magic reserve power forward.

The combatants: A young Shaquille O’Neal, Magic center; Krsytkowiak; Scott Skiles, Magic point guard.

The action: “Haymakers” thrown, Skiles “sorta” in a headlock, wrapped around Shaq, mayhem.

The instigator: Scott Skiles, of course.

The result: One of the wildest NBA practice fights on record, and mutual admiration society between Skiles and Shaq.  Continued friendship between Skiles and Krystkowiak. Shaq and Krystkowiak?  No hard feelings, respect. The Magic went on to win 50 games that season, Shaq’s second in the NBA.

Krystkowiak tells it far better than anybody. Here’s the LINK to Krystkowiak’s account, by ESPN writer Chris Sheridan.

Imagine Krystkowiak’s surprise when, in the 2007-08 season, Bucks power forward Charlie Villanueva backed down from a fight challenge — from Krystkowiak — during a Bucks practice.  The NBA had changed.  Yet it’s a better game today because players like Shaq and Skiles and Krystkowiak simply never bothered to.

A Tale of Two Centers: Nevermind the DPOY voting, Dwight Howard and Andrew Bogut were the most dominant defenders of 2011

Dwight, Dwight, Dwight, hey Dwight — like the talking basketball in the playoffs commercial, 114 of 120 ballots for 2011 Defensive Player of the Year named Dwight Howard No. 1 and the Orlando Magic center became the first player in NBA history to collect three straight DPOY awards.

The odd surprise was that it wasn’t unanimous.  The true surprise was that so few of the ballots — only six — named as No. 2 the center who led the NBA in blocked shots per game, Milwaukee Bucks center Andrew Bogut.

Adding insult to small market center injury, only 14 voters deemed Bogut’s defense worthy of a third place nod, meaning that Bogut was omitted on 100 of the 120 ballots cast by the men and women in media covering the NBA.  Only one ballot omitted Howard.

West Coast bias is one factor.  Celtics love is another.  But 100 omissions of Bogut is a little scary when one considers that the people casting votes were, ostensibly, paying attention to the league they cover.  At last check the Milwaukee Bucks were still in the league, I’m fairly certain.  They appeared to be, anyway, last time I checked the regular season standings.

In watching a thousand or so hours of NBA basketball and assiduously tracking a season’s worth of defensive ratings and other statistics, as I did, one truth stands tall about the NBA’s impact defenders:  There is Superman and there is Andrew Bogut … and then there’s everybody else, Kevin Garnett and Grizzlies sixth man Tony Allen, a Celtic last season, leading the pack.

Howard this week joined Dikembe Mutombo (four DPOYs) and Big Ben Wallace (four also) as the only players in NBA history to win the award more times than Bucks should-be Hall of Famer Sidney Moncrief won it in the first two years of its existence (1983 and 1984).

Howard was again the highest-rated defender in the league (94.0 team points allowed per 100 possessions) and also led in “Defensive Plays” (blocks + steals + est. charges taken) with 3.88 per game.  He was fourth in blocked shots (2.4 per game) and hauled in 14.1 rebounds per game, finishing third in defensive rebounding rate, grabbing 30.6 percent of opponent misses.

Bogut finished 4th in defensive rating (97.3) and led the league in shot blocking (2.6 per game).  Bogues grabbed a career-best 11.1 rebounds per game and finished sixth in defensive rebounding rate at 27.1 percent.  He also took an estimated 32 charges this season, pulling in right behind Howard with 3.8 “Defensive Plays” per game.

Those “Defensive Plays” are quantifiable “stops” that disrupt the opposition and, in Bogut’s case, usually force a change of possession because most of his blocks stay in bounds and are recovered by the Bucks.  Howard, by choice, tries to intimidate opponents by rejecting shots into the expensive seats.  A quick estimate says that half of Howard’s “Defensive Plays” force possession change, compared to about 75 percent of Bogut’s.

But the quantifiable plays tell only part of the story.

Individual statistics don’t capture the number of shots a big man alters in a game, nor the number of passes he tips or forces out of bounds by denying the ball in the post, nor the number of rushed shot-clock prayers and weak side offense that result from denying the post, nor the turnovers forced by playing good help defense.

And the box score stats certainly don’t quantify how often opposing players opt for low percentage perimeter shots simply because Howard or Bogut is patrolling the paint.

Magic opponents shot a fourth-worst 43.6 percent from the field.  Bucks’ opponents shot 44.7 percent, the sixth best defensive mark in the league, and a third-lowest 33.6 percent from 3-point-land, a testament to the fact that the Bucks don’t sag too deep to the paint and rarely double team the post.  Bogut’s not given, nor does he require, defensive help.

The results showed on the scoreboard:  Howard’s Magic played the third-best defense in the NBA ( 102.1 pts.allowed/100 poss.).  Bogut’s Bucks were right behind the Magic in fourth (102.5 pts./100).

How good are Howard and Bogut?   The Bulls (100.3 pts/100) and Celtics (100.3 pts/100) play the best team defense in the NBA.  As such, there are nine Bulls and Celtics in the individual defensive ratings top 20.  There are only two Magic and Bucks — Howard and Bogut, though in January and February Bucks forward Ersan Ilyasova climbed as high as 17th in the ratings.

This means that the Magic and Bucks defenses, ranked third and fourth, allowed significant increases in opponent scoring when Howard and Bogut were not on the court.  For the Magic the increase was monumental — an estimated 16+ points per 100 possessions, placing the Magic’s non-Howard defense above the league average of 107.3.

But Howard was on the court 74 percent of the Magic’s season.  Bogut played 57.8 percent of the Bucks season, with the Bucks D giving up an estimated 9.5 more points per 1oo possessions when their center was on the bench or missing 17 games.

It’s next to unreasonable to expect Superman endurance from any player, 67 percent on-court time this season from Bogut would almost certainly have pushed the Bucks into the playoffs.  As it turned out, they were within a buzzer beater in Indiana April 1 of making it with Bogut’s 58 percent playing time contribution.

Therein, however, lies the main difference between Howard and Bogut and the reason that Bogut — whom some considered the leading candidate for DPOY until the Bucks February swoon — wasn’t more seriously considered, even as a No. 2 candidate.  The Magic are in the playoffs with home court advantage against the Hawks; the injury-addled Bucks defied expectations by missing the playoffs, and Bogut this month underwent a second surgery on his mangled right arm, which was never fully functioning this season.

Yet despite the 17 missed games, it may surprise many post-season awards voters that Bogut logged more minutes (2,297) than Tyson Chandler (2,059) played for the Mavericks; and he had more on-court time than the Spurs’ defensive anchor, Tim Duncan (2,156 minutes).

Chandler had an exceptional season in Dallas but the individual and team statistics don’t lie — Bogut not only played more but had the more Howard-like impact, and it wasn’t really close.  Wilson Chandler blocked more shots than Tyson did.

In 2011 Bogut made more defensive plays than Duncan or Chandler, opponents shot a lower percentage against his Bucks and scored less.  Duncan’s Spurs allowed 4.2 more points per 100 possessions than Bogut’s Bucks, while Chandler’s Mavs allowed 5.3 more.  Those differences were big and obvious to those who watched Bogut in action in 2011.

The concern here is that many awards voters apparently didn’t see the Bucks play this season, and if they did, they were paying more attention to the Bucks (and Bogut’s) missed shots than to the center’s All-NBA defense.  (Even the reporters who cover the Bucks daily fell into this trap, though there’s no need to link here to that offensive team report.  They actually graded Bogut a C-.)

As Duncan would attest, post defense isn’t about spectacular blocks or rabid intensity during 4th quarter stands in close games, or about altercations instigated on national TV.  It’s about persistence, positioning and leverage, possession-after-possession, as well as smart off-the-ball rotations to the weak side.

Howard and Bogut persist as masters of these defensive arts in the paint, and if they sometimes make it look too easy, one can only hope the awards voters aren’t fooled.  When the All-Defensive Teams are unveiled, I hope the voters don’t make the same mistakes they made with their Defensive Player of the Year ballots.

Howard, of course, will be the first team center.  And there should be Bogut, deserving of his rightful spot as number two.  Careful!!  There are only two NBA All-Defensive teams … and that third step down for the centers is kinda steep.

The return of Michael Redd: Steve Aschburner feature at NBA.com

Bucks erstwhile shooting guard Michael Redd is “on the brink” of a comeback after 14 months of rehab from major knee surgery.  But is Redd, ever the source of fan debate about personal scoring vs. team basketball, relevant to the 2011 Milwaukee Bucks?

NBA.com feature columnist Steve Aschburner wades through the psychological dilemmas for the team and for Redd, who is expected to return sometime this week (Friday, the Bucks say).  Along the way, Aschburner makes some welcome and refreshing notes about Redd’s former play that are not often aired in Wisconsin media.

Redd has been a volume shooter, averaging 18.3 field goal attempts in his five full seasons scoring more than 20 points per game for Milwaukee. His career numbers in both true-shooting percentage (.560) and effective field-goal percentage (.505) rank down the list from the game’s most efficient marksmen. So as desperate as the Bucks need buckets, Redd — even the old version of Redd — might not be [able to] slip so easily into a team that has had to play without him.  LINK to Aschburner article.

Actually, those insights have been aired often here, and occasionally at Brewhoop and other Bucks fan blogs.  But such analysis of Redd’s game has been absent from the daily, mainstream coverage of the Bucks.

There is that $91 million contract still on the books for a few months, and, well, it’s difficult enough for the Bucks to sell tickets in the small Milwaukee market without a pile of negative press about the player and absurdly horrendous contract the team shackled itself to five summers ago.

At issue is that old “scorer vs. team offensive efficiency” that was dealt with in “Basketball by the Numbers” and other sources, wherein there is a “too selfish” line that gets crossed by NBA scorers.  Joe Johnson’s regularly over that line, and Kobe Bryant certainly crosses it from time to time, with great purpose and intent.  Lebron?  How about the Cavs problems in the 2009 and 2010 playoffs.  This season, not so bad as the Cavs postseason meltdowns, but the Heat have had their share of ball movement problems, especially when trying to close out games.

Michael Redd was over that line almost every night for five years, and the Bucks were never able to put a winning product on the court with their volume shooting guard as the number 1 scoring option.

Meanwhile, the dominance of Redd generally impaired the development needs of the team and caused conflicts with coaches (Larry Krystkowiak, Scott Skiles), until the last three years under coach Skiles, with Redd missing 180 of 231 Bucks games.

It’s strictly regarded policy here at The Bob Boozer Jinx that Redd can only serve to retard whatever the Bucks hope to accomplish this season or next.  He may prove me wrong, but his history suggests that he can’t and won’t.

But enough out of me.  Please take some time, if you have some, to give Aschburner’s feature a read.  Here’s another excerpt.

The NBA has a shadow squad of once-electric players forever altered by injuries, guys such as McDyess in San Antonio, Tracy McGrady in Detroit and Gilbert Arenas in Orlando. Redd got to watch Arenas up close Wednesday as he shuffled through a five-point, 2-of-6 shooting night for the Magic. They aren’t who they once were, their teams aren’t organized around them and it can be a humbling, difficult experience.

That’s good stuff.

Strength of Schedule II: Dwight Howard vs. Andrew Bogut

For three quarters, the Bucks went toe-to-toe with LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh and the Miami Heat, then folded under a hale of referee whistles and bad offense and generally poor shooting.  The missed Bucks layups that might have made this a game down to the final buzzer had already been missed, five of them in the third quarter when it was still a game and the Heat erased the Bucks 4-point halftime lead.

Andrew Bogut (16 pts, 8 rebs) and John Salmons (18 pts, 6 assists) led the Bucks, but they weren’t good enough, efficient enough offensively and in the end didn’t have enough help to keep up with the Heat.  Wade led all scorers with 34 pts while LeBron and Bosh chipped in a combined 44.  Here’s the box score.

In all, the Bucks put up a fairly decent fight, which ought to make tonight’s matchup with the Orlando Magic all the more interesting, considering that there’s no D-Wade or LeBron on hand to make winning a game an insurmountable task.  The centers — the Magic’s Dwight Howard and the Bucks’ Andrew Bogut are the best players in the building.

They oughta be in any case, which is to say that Bogut’s All-Star qualifications are on trial tonight in Orlando.

Bogut leads the NBA in blocked shots per game (2.8) but has struggled with his offense since missing five games in Nov. and early December with a lower back strain.  How much is the broken hand/mangled arm Bogut suffered at the end of last season affecting him?

He’s 94 out of 185 (50.8%) from the floor in the 14 games since he returned Dec. 4 against the Magic, a game that Howard missed due to a team-wide stomach virus that streaked through Orlando.   Bogut dominated the game with 31 points, setting up tonight’s game as a chance for Howard to erase that glitch on the Magic schedule.  Howard’s 3rd in blocks (2.4 per game) and hauls down 13.2 rebounds a game, which would probably lead the league if Kevin Love’s teammates in Minnesota were more interested in helping him on the glass.

Fifty percent shooting is not bad — but hardly great for a center who rarely strays more than 10 feet from the basket; and his free throw shooting continues to be an indescribable adventure (26 of 63 for 41.3%).  15.3 pts per game is slightly above his average from last season, but the Bucks need more out of Bogut this season, especially now with point guard Brandon Jennings out for another two weeks with a bone fracture in his foot.

Bogut’s had some monstrous rebounding games and has averaged 11.6 per game since the back injury.  The rebounding is always there.  The defense, too.  But right now, the Bucks need more.

Strength of Schedule: The good news for the Bucks is that their strength of schedule continues to go through the roof.  The bad news is that the Knicks beat the Spurs last night in New York, yet another indication that — all hype aside — the Knicks may be tough to catch once the schedules begin to even out.  The Bucks (13-19) fell to six games behind the Knicks (20-14) in the Eastern Conference standings.

The Bucks have easily played the most difficult schedule in the league based on opponent record, with a +1.24 rating.  The Knicks have played a relatively soft schedule (-0.59).  It should be noted that the 23-and-14 Hawks (-1.07) have played the softest schedule in the East.   This stuff bears repeating if only to keep Bucks fans from freaking out about the team’s lousy record.

Bucks release Skinner: There are now more 2010 Bucks (Andrew Bogut, Ersan Ilyasova, Luc Mbah a Moute and John Salmons) on Scott Skiles’ available roster than 2001 Los Angeles Clippers (Corey Maggette, Keyon Dooling and Earl Boykins).

The Bucks released little used big forward Brian Skinner today, a nod to the fact that coach Skiles wasn’t likely to use him in Orlando tonight and an indication that the plantar fasciitis in Drew Gooden’s left foot has cleared up enough for the Bucks to try once again to integrate him into the rotation.  They might’ve waited a few days, as Skinner’s contract for the remainder of the season didn’t become guaranteed until Monday, but, obviously, no reason to continue practicing with Skinner if he wasn’t going to play or be around next week.

The Bucks signed Skinner after Gooden went down with the foot problem while Andrew Bogut was still recovering from a lower back strain.  Skinner was in the Bucks training camp in September but didn’t make the final roster.

Shaq for Hire: The Diesel is the final piece of the Bucks puzzle

http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/magic.jpgThe Bucks don’t have a center on the bench to back up Andrew Bogut.

Shaquille O’Neal doesn’t have a job, and his asking price for 2010-11 may be coming down.

If Bucks GM John Hammond doesn’t already have Shaq’s agent on speed-dial, what’s he waiting for?

Bogut’s coming off his first All-Pro season but he’s also rehabbing his mangled right paw and the Bucks still have Bogues on medical watch from the serious lower back problems that forced him to miss half the 2009 season.  Whether the Bucks prospects live or die with Bogut’s health is still a little unclear given the roster changes this summer, but nobody’s going to take them seriously in the playoffs if Bogut’s not healthy in April and May. They need a veteran big to help them manage the health of their 25-year-old star through the NBA’s 82-game ordeal.

Shaq meets and exceeds the job requirements, no doubt about that, and he “knows somebody” at Bucks HQ — coach Scott Skiles and The Diesel have been pals since their playing days on the early 1990s Orlando Magic.  It wasn’t always that way in Orlando — Skiles, Shaq and Larry Krystkowiak were the combatants in one of the NBA’s more infamous practice brawls — but the mutual respect between Shaq and Skiles was pretty well documented during the Bulls-Heat playoff series’ in 2006 and 2007.

The Diesel doesn’t have much left in the tank, but if Bogut can stay relatively healthy (there’s that “if” again) the Bucks don’t need a full time center — nor do they need Shaq to resemble the center who was 3rd team All-Pro with the Suns just 18 months ago.  They only need Shaq to be better than the two guys who manned the post against the Hawks last spring, Kurt Thomas and Dan Gadzuric.  Sitting on the bench in street clothes, Shaq would be more valuable to the team and to Bogut than KT and Gadz.

The only real questions, then, are money and desire.  The Bucks can’t really afford to pay him much more than the veteran minimum.  Setting aside the money question, if Shaq wants to play, and wants to play for Skiles and  add to his legacy by helping one of the games rising young centers, Milwaukee is the place for him to be.

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For the full story on the Shaq-Skiles-Krystkowiak melee, check out Chris Sheridan’s definitive account from a few years back when Krykstkowiak was coaching the Bucks.  Sounds like Larry got the worst end of it.

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Just when it was safe for Bucks fans to come back in the room, the elephant wakes up.

Now that Vince Carter’s awake

Are the 2010 Celtics better than the 2008 championship team?  They might be, despite the wear and tear on The Big Three (as undetectable as wear and tear may be on Ray Allen).  These days, there’s as much reason to talk about the other Allen, forward Tony.

Rajon Rondo‘s certainly a lot better than the guy that Delonte West didn’t bother to guard in the 2008 Cavs-Celtics series.  Rasheed Wallace is a better big man off the bench than P.J. Brown or Leon Powe. Of course.  Glen “Big Baby” Davis is a wrecking ball off the bench, and a couple of years removed from 2008 when he looked raw and uncomfortable on the court, like he didn’t know the plays. Big Baby has improved each season since the title.  Michael Finley?  Nice guy to have around as a 9th man. 

Factor in a finally healthy Tony Brown having a breakout playoff run, and the supporting cast in Boston circa 2010 is hands down better than the guys who helped the Big Three win it all in 2008. And they’ve all been tested by the rigors of a couple of injury plagued seasons.

Still, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce can be good for 47 combined points on any given night or day, as they were in Sunday in Orlando.  When that happens the C’s are near impossible to beat, Game 1 and home court advantage to Boston, 92-88.

Somebody might want to wake Vince Carter up before the East Finals are over.

“I think it was a wake-up call that we really needed. Now it’s what are we going to do about it? How do we respond?” — Carter after Game 1.

Count me as one who never thought the Magic could win it all with VC at shooting guard.  They won’t, not this year anyway.

Thanks go to the NBA blog Both Teams Played Hard  for the photo.

And if you get a chance, do take a look at Dwyer’s Behind the Box Score entry on Celtics-Magic Game 1.

Bucks Weekend: Is Andrew Bogut the best center named Andrew drafted in 2005? Skiles dunks on Shaq!!!

What’s this? A two-game home win streak for the Bucks before flying out to Los Angeles and the Battle of the Andrews? The fans needed that. But first, a moment of NBA Weekend Zen from J.E. Skeets over at Yahoo NBA’s Ball Don’t Lie blog.

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After a well-knit, all-around team victory over the Chicago Bulls Wednesday, the Bucks face Charlotte tonight at the BC to close out their lightest week of the season and then it gets tough again. The Bucks head to Los Angeles for a Sunday night game against the Lakers, the first of three on a Sunday-Wednesday west coast swing.

The pairing of Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol has delivered one of the top 3 teams in the NBA (Celtics and Cavs the other two) but another force awaits the Bucks and Andrew Bogut in LA:  The other Andrew. The other A.B. The other center in the 2005 draft.

Bogut was the #1 overall pick in the 2005, while Lakers center Andrew Bynum went #10 straight out of high school. After a slow development his first two season, Bynum brought it on last season, averaging 13 pts, 10 rebs and 2 blocks through 35 games before a knee injury sidelined him for the remainder of the season. After knee surgery, Bynum’s back in the flow for the Lakers putting up the same, steady numbers. His rebounds are down a bit but Bynum’s now playing alongside Gasol, who was acquired last season after Bynum was hurt.

Bynum’s numbers are generally comparable to Bogut’s but judging these centers is not about the numbers. Watching the two Andrews battle was one of last season’s highlights as the Bucks stole an early season game from the Lakers. Both young centers played well in the matchup but it was clear that the only things Bogut did better than Bynum were pass the ball and take charges. Everything else, especially the shot-blocking and the ability to stay out of foul trouble, has gone Bynum’s way … with the exception last season of the all-important “health” quotient. Even that goes Bynum’s way this season as Bogut appears slowed by ankle problems and missed three games with a knee bruise  …  

Check out this story from earlier this week, after the Lakers beat Toronto last Sunday. Bynum had 18 and 10 and harassed All-Pro big forward Chris Bosh to his worst game of the season. How will Bogut fare?  We’ll see on Sunday. This is good test for both Andrews, and it should help answer our question: Who is the best center named Andrew drafted in the 1st round of the 2005 draft?

This vs. poor Joey Graham of the Raptors is just ugly!





The all-important health quotient: When are these Bucks going to get healthy? The win against Chicago was a strong statement that Scott Skiles has the Bucks moving in the right direction (the interior defense was SOLID) but it didn’t stop the incessant injury report questions that have nagged the Bucks all season long like a bad trick knee. Charlie Bell needs a break to rest his bum ankle. Andrew Bogut returned from his bruised knee only to get whacked in the head and retreat to the locker room with a migraine. Bogut is questionable still with the tip-off against Charlotte twenty minutes away.

Some media is so dulled by the injury stories that they just didn’t bother with the update Friday: WTMJ-TV News 4 didn’t even report Bogut’s migraine – Lance Allen! Where’s my injury report?  Skiles did all he could to keep Larry Brown and the Bobcats guessing about Bogut’s status up until a half hour before the game. But who was he kidding? No Migraine was going to keep Bogut from outmuscling Emeka Okafor in the paint for the 6th straight time. A little basketball’s probably good for a migraine anyway.

The Bobcats game Friday was not on the toob. I suppose this means that the Bucks want us to go the game. Incentive? They looked like a team moving in the right direction in beating the Bulls Wednesday, and $29 upper level seats are $10. Disincentive?  I’m off to watch the Celtics and Portland Trailblazers on ESPN, my first chance this season to see Blazers rookie center Greg Oden.

Sam MitchellSam Mitchell makes a classy exit: The Toronto Raptors fired coach Sam Mitchell Wednesday and you could see it coming. After trading T.J. Ford for Indiana Pacers’ injury-riddled center Jermaine O’Neal, the Raptors looked no better than they did last year when they finished 41-41 and were bounced out of the playoffs in the 1st round by the Orlando Magic. In fact they looked worse in their early season matchup against the Bucks, a game the Bucks would have won if not for some terrrrible decision making by a certain shooting guard in the final minute.

 

Now the Raptors are just like the Pacers of the last couple of seasons: waiting for O’Neal to be healthy. The former All-Star center hasn’t played in nearly two weeks. After losing to Kobe, the other Andrew and the Lakers Sunday, the Raptors were blown out by 39 points in Denver Tuesday and that was the end for Mitchell. The Raptors are 8-9 and still on the western road, playing tonight in Utah.

 

I never thought T.J. for O’Neal was a good trade because of questions about O’Neal health. Not that T.J. Ford is the picture of health either, but I think you can do better for a dynamic point guard than an aging, injury-prone center.

 

Marbury to be a Celtic? Apparently it’s possible according to a report on ESPN Radio, though I question whether ESPN could have got the scoop with the media that surrounds the Knicks on the case. But here I am in the blogosphere mongering another ESPN rumor. Marbury, who was first benched by Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni then refused to play when the team was shorthanded, is currently banished from the team and trying to negotiate a buyout of his contract. If Marbury gets a buyout (similar to what Sam Cassell did last season), he would then be waived and could sign on with another team after clearing waivers. ESPN has reported that the Celtics, Orlando Magic and Miami Heat are interested. The New York Daily News reached Marbury by email Friday but Marbury refused to comment.

 

Packer broadcast break: “When that ball goes to the ground … wow … Satan rules at the bottom of an NFL pile. You don’t want to be there.”  — CBS color commentator Gus Johnson. The Packers had just recovered a fumbled punt by the Texans in the 4th quarter.

 

Deep Sixed in Philly?  With Elton Brand missing his second straight game as the Sixers played the Nets Saturday night, center Sam Dalembert pulled another disappearing act. Dalembert didn’t score, grabbed a few rebounds and had his shot blocked three times. Sixers coach Maurice Cheeks benched him in the loss, after playing him only 18 mins vs. Detroit the previous night. Dalembert grabbed a single, lone rebound against the Pistons. Dalembert’s had a few of these games in the last two-three weeks as the Sixers have struggled, falling to 9-12.  Sixer fans are beginning to wonder whether Sam’s injured, in the doghouse, or just out of it.

Why should Bucks fans care? Well, if Philly continues to struggle and Dalembert disappears, this is good news for the Bucks and Andrew Bogut, who’ll meet the Sixers three times this season. Dalembert has caused nothing but problems for Bogut in the past. If the Bucks are to have any hope of reaching the playoffs, Philly’s the kind of mid-level team to beat. With Detroit, Philly and Toronto struggling after big acquisitions (Brand for Philly, Allen Iverson for Detroit and Jermaine O’Neil for the Raptors) the playoff picture in the East is looking murky. This could be good for the Bucks.

 

Devin Harris playing like an All-Star: Tom Enlund leads off his NBA beat column with a look at ‘Tosa East’s own Devin Harris, who’s emerging as the best point guard in the Eastern Conference (now that Chauncey Billups is in Denver) and is 5th in the league in scoring, first in free throws made.  Richard Jefferson had this to say about his former Nets teammate, who came to New Jersey in the Jason Kidd trade last February:


“Devin is one of the best young players in this league. I’m extremely proud of him. He’s a friend of mine. I knew right away when he came over from Dallas that they had received a very, very good piece.For him, he works so hard and learned so much from so many people – (former Dallas coach) Avery Johnson and all the players there – and now he’s in a situation he’s able to show all the things he’s learned. Everybody knew he was a great player. He was on a team that went to the Finals, on a team that won almost 70 games, and now he’s in a situation where it’s his team and he’s really starting to flourish.”

The walking wounded: Bogut hurts knee vs. Magic, status unknown

dwight_howard2.jpgThese were long-awaited words to read from the Associated Press recap of the last night’s Bucks-Magic game in Orlando, where Andrew Bogut squared off in the paint against the Orlando Magic’s, Dwight Howard, the NBA’s top center.

“Bogut got the better of a matchup of back-to-back No. 1 overall draft picks early. Bogut [the top pick in the 2005 NBA draft] made a pair of jump hooks over Howard to start the game. He then drew charges for two of the three fouls that sent Howard, the 2004 top pick, to the bench with about seven minutes left in the second quarter.

Bogut had 16 points and three rebounds in the first. Howard had only four points and six boards.”


But it wasn’t meant to last. Despite Bogut’s scoring, the Bucks were down 11 at half. When Bogut and Howard went back to work in the 2nd half, Howard turned the tables, forcing three quick fouls on Bogut in the post and sending him to the bench with four fouls for the game.

It may have been by design: Howard’s as terrible a free throw shooter as Bogut, and Bogut was beginning to realize he was done for the night. After leaving the game, Bogut headed to the locker room for x-rays on his knee, according to AP. Bogut said he had bruised the knee in the first half taking a charge, probably one of those against Howard – he didn’t specify. Howard finished with 24 pts, 13 rebs to lead the Magic to a 108-101 win. Richard Jefferson led the Bucks with 25. Bogut left the game with 16.

How badly is Bogut hurt? After the game Bogut said he’d “be OK.” Journal Sentinel’s Tom Enlund reported it as a “knee contusion” in his game blog and also reported that “the extent of the injury is unknown.”

A bruised knee is a bruised knee, unless it’s mashed so badly that there was damage to the bone or ligaments, which is what the x-rays would reveal.

How much you want to bet that Bogut’s out there playing on it Wednesday in Atlanta … Friday in Detroit the latest.

Point guard Luke Ridnour missed Monday’s game to rest his banged up and scraped up knee, suffered in Charlotte Saturday. This left the Bucks without both the starting guards they opened the season with (Michael Redd’s sitting out the road trip in Milwaukee with a high ankle sprain). Still the Bucks made it a game on Orlando’s home court, pulling to within 95-90 in the 4th quarter, and to 103-100 in the final minute.

Coach Scott Skiles said he expects Ridnour to miss only one game (the Orlando game), which means Ridnour will be expected to play in Atlanta Wednesday.


Redd injury update: “He still has some soreness,” coach Skiles said, explaining why Redd stayed behind in Milwaukee this week. Here’s an initial report on the injury from Gery Woelfel in Racine. John Hammond had told him the injury wasn’t serious and that he didn’t expected Redd to miss any games much less 12. Skiles told Journal Sentinel he is assuming Redd won’t be back on this road trip, which ends Friday in Detroit. Saturday the Bucks play Cleveland at home.

I wouldn’t expect Redd back until the Wednesday, Dec. 3 game at home against the Bulls.

Here’s video of the injury, along with the game highlights from the Bucks win over the Knicks Nov. 2.